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About Us
FAQs about the Mount Argus Pre-Marriage Course
Ethos and content of the pms
Who runs these courses?
Numbers attending each course
Where are courses held, and when?
Is catering provided, at the course?
Are any Course-notes provided?
Is there an Attendance Certificate?
Is follow-up counselling provided?
Will there be group-work, on the course?
Is the course suited for Interfaith Couples?
How soon should we take our p-m course?
Who may officiate at our wedding?
What marriage documents are required?
How is our Marriage civilly registered?
The Regulations for marrying Abroad
Ethos and Content of the course
This one-day course
(held on one or more Saturdays each month - except August,) aims
to help engaged couples to focus mentally, emotionally and spiritually
on enhancing their marriage union. It is delivered in the
form of interactive "sessions" rather than as straight
lectures. It helps couples to clarify the expectations they bring
to the marriage, and their commitment to partnership. We aim at a welcoming
spirit, open to discussion and dialogue during the day.
Participants are encouraged to exchange views and experiences
with other couples on the course. You will have opportunity
during the breaks to discuss your wedding preparations with
others on the course.
What is covered on the course?
1. Relationship & Communication [09.30 to 11.00] Communicating;
trust; honesty; realistic expectations; self awareness; coping with conflict.
2. Sexuality & Relationship [11.30 to 13.00] Male and female
characteristics; understanding your relationship; approaches to
family planning. Maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Keeping love going.
3. Marriage: Law & Sacrament [14.00 to 15.30]
Marriage in the law and in society; Catholic teaching on Marriage as a graced vocation; form of its celebration.
4. Facing
Life Together [16.00 to 17.00] A married couple share
their experience of being in partnership, from dating to child-bearing and rearing a family.
Number of couples at the Course
Variable, depending on the
level of demand and on the time of year.
As ours is a popular format, there are seldom less
than 30 couples on any given course, but our venues & speakers can cope
with up to 50 couples. Hence, even though any of the participants is welcome to make their views heard,
the amount of dialogue on the course is necessarily limited.
Do the engaged couples enjoy the course?
Actually, many of our participating couples
have said that - sometimes to their surprise - they found it both challenging and very
worthwhile. These satisfied couples are our best
advertisement and often recommend our course to their friends.
Location, Timetable and Frequency
All our courses are held on Saturdays, in venues in Dublin
(south side) - and most often, in Terenure College.
The dates and venues are posted,
and regularly updated.
When does the
course begin, and when does it end?
We start (with details about the course & its structure) at 09:20.
The course will be over, and your certificates of attendance distributed, by 17:10 that
afternoon.
While the course is quite short, we do hope you will follow up on some themes from the day, afterwards, by reading much of the supplementary material provided on this site
Must we book in advance, or can we simply "arrive on the day"?
Advance booking is absolutely
required. We could not
organise the courses without this
and no certificate of completion could be prepared
for issue at the end of the course.
Will our booking
be confirmed in writing?
Not unless you specifically request
this, sending an S.A.E. with your completed booking form.
Keep a note of the date for which you've booked.
If, by mishap,
we are unable to attend the course?
If a genuine, last-minute illness
or emergency prevents your attendance, let us know by phone (296-4257)
for a refund, or we may be able to offer you a place on
a later course instead.
Are any Meals included
in the cost of the course?
Basic catering is provided
for all our course participants in the form of "snacks to tide you over".
There's a Tea/Coffee & biscuits break
in the mid-morning and again in the mid-afternoon. Also, a light lunch of soup &
sandwiches is served in the canteen, from 1 pm onward.
If diabetic or vegetarian, please make any special catering needs known to our catering staff, by mid-morning.
Are any course-notes provided?
We do not provide printed notes to our course participants on the day of
their course. Instead, as a means of following up items covered on your "Together" Course, we have provided
detailed notes on many aspects of marriage. You can access them (communication, history, law, theology, and ceremony) via the buttons on left side of the MainPage).
Naturally, we hope that
these will prove useful to our engaged couples, and that you will read at least some of them, as an extension of your marriage preparation day.
Is there intensive group-work, on the course?
No. There might be a small exercise to do in a group, but there is no need for revealing your inmost secrets, nor is your partner invited to spill the beans on you, in any way that might be personally embarrassing.
On the other hand, some level of interaction with others on the course should make it a more interesting experience for everybody concerned.
Attendance Certificate
Each couple on completion of the course
receives an ornate "certificate of completion" with their names, the date of the course and the signatures of & contacts for both the course coordinator and the course director.
We recommend that you photocopy this cert asap after the course. To have a lost cert re-issued, please send your details [names, course date] with €10 plus SAE, to
Fr Pat Rogers
Mount Argus
Lr Kimmage Rd
Are all four sessions needed,
to get our certificate?
Yes, from 9.30 until the final
session ends (5 pm). The course is designed as an integral unit so it can't really be trimmed down to just a couple
of sessions.
Our certificate states that you have completed all four sessions,
and can therefore only be issued when that condition is met.
Who may officiate at our wedding?
In order for your names to be entered in the civil register as married, your wedding must be solemnised by a person authorised by the General Registrar's office (see website http://www.groireland.ie)
In order for the religious wedding
ceremony held in Ireland to be also a valid civil marriage,
it must be "solemnised" or presided over by a person
who is named on the official Register
of Solemnisers, maintained by the Registrar's Office.
Before inviting a priest to act as your celebrant, you should
check that his name is on this Register; and if it is not, ask
to have that omission rectified well before the wedding
date. Just before your wedding, hand over to this priest your marriage registration form.
Is the course suitable for Interfaith Weddings?
We believe so, though the majority attending will be Catholic couples.
Inter-Faith Couples should notify us, and ask any questions they wish, about the options for celebrating their ceremony.
Sometimes the marriage council agency, Accord, holds
courses specially designed for Inter-Faith Couples
Regulations for couples getting married outside of Ireland?
The regulations for weddings abroad will be briefly clarified. For full details on this question, elsewhere on this site, or consult the General Registry Office website.
Are any Irish priests available
to celebrate weddings abroad?
Sometimes we can help the couple find a suitable bi-lingual
Irish celebrant, willing to officiate at weddings in France, Spain,
Italy or elsewhere. You may address your query to Fr.
Pat Rogers on the day of your course.
How soon should we take the course?
There is no hard and fast rule on this, but our general guideline is: "As soon as is convenient for you, once you have gotten engaged, and have a date in mind for the marriage."
It's not unusual for a couple to take their course with us even six months or more before the wedding date. Getting it done early is not just
convenient, in the sense of "one more task ticked off the list; you are also likely to get more benefit from it if you take it at your leisure, when not under the pressure of an imminent wedding.
You should take the course some four months ahead of the wedding, if you are getting married in a church outside of Ireland. Usually, the parish abroad will have a requirement that you send them a wedding-course certificate, at least three months in advance of your wedding.
The same four months guideline applies if yours is a "mixed marriage" since all your wedding documents, including the wedding-course certificate, will need to be sent in advance to the diocesan office, to obtain the bishop's consent.
Who Runs These Courses?
The course is organised by Fr Patrick Rogers, c.p., Mount Argus; and Angela O'Rourke, M.A. along with a team of highly trained counsellors and dedicated married couples.
Patrick Rogers, Th.D. lectures in biblical studies at the Milltown Institute in Dublin. He has trained in counselling, maintains the website and the
staffing rota, and conducts the session dealing with marriage
in civil law and Catholic doctrine; and wedding celebration.
Angela O'Rourke, M.A. (applied theology) has taught
3rd-level courses on Christian Ministry, and on the Theology
of Marriage. As well as dealing with bookings and answering telephone queries, she is responsible for our course session on sexuality and
relationship.
Other Team
Members:
The trained counsellors who treat of relationship problems and viable solutions include: Brian McDonnell, Berna Brennan, Gillford d'Souza, David Carrick, Sarah McDermott and John Murphy
The final session (Life Together, on the actual, lived experience of marriage,)
is given by a rota of married couples, selected both for their communication skills and because they have an interesting story to share.
Is any follow-up counselling
offered by the "Together" course?
Any course participant is free to speak to any of our speakers after
each session, or to arrange a later appointment with them, if they wish.
Also, upon request from a participan couple, we will gladly provide a referral to a marriage counsellor, e.g.
on dealing with relationship stress, or conflict resolution.
In this case, the initial counselling session will be offerred gratis to the couple, courtesy of our course.
There are many discreeet, helpful and non-judgmental services, among them Berna Brennan (Churchtown) or "Awakenings" (Rathfarnham), Dublin, to which we can refer you.
Situations where counselling
can help:
Relationship problems may arise that a couple feel unable to resolve
on their own. Rather than involve family members or close friends,
who might too quickly take sides – and make the problem worse
– it's worth seeking impartial and skilled help from a trained counsellor. What
counselling offers is an area of calm, where things can be seen
again in perspective and some middle ground can be reached, hopefully before a couple have reached breaking-up point.
Various
agencies offer this service, in total confidentiality, among them Retrouvaille a program designed to help heal and renew marriages, and the Accord Marriage Advisory Agency which has a vibrant counselling service around the country. Information
from 01 478 4400
What Wedding-Documents will we need for a Catholic marriage?
a) Baptismal & confirmation certificates
b) Pre-Nuptial Enquiry Form (by a priest of your
parish
c) Marriage preparation certificate
d) Documentary proof of your freedom to marry *
e) permissions & dispensations where applicable
**
* e.g. furnish an AFFIDAVIT
** e.g. for a mixed marriage
Since interpretations of d) and e) may vary according to local custom, you should ask the priest in charge of your wedding church to list his documentary requirements.
For the civil ceremony you need:
1. The couple must attend in
person with the state Registrar 3 months in advance of the
proposed wedding.
2. The registrar issues a Marriage
Registration Form (MRF) to permit the wedding. (The couple
must present the MRF to the solemniser before the wedding
so that he can check that the details are correct before
the marriage takes place. This should be done as early as
is convenient..)
3. The person officiating at
the wedding must be a state registered solemniser appointed
by his/her church. If changes are necessary – for instance,
changing the name of the solemniser – the couple should
be advised to contact the civil registrarto arrange for
the re-issue of the MRF at the earliest possible stage before
the ceremony.
4. Two witnesses must be nominated
(normally Best Man & Bridesmaid)
5. You will also declare, before
the wedding ceremony, that there is no civil impediment to the marriage, using this form
6. The couple must return the
completed MRF to any registrar after the wedding, so that their
marriage is civilly recorded.
Registration and Certificate of Marriage
Getting the MRF: Since 5 November 2007,
a couple intending marriage are required to give notification
in person, to a Registrar, of their intention to marry at least
3 months before their intended marriage date. The notification
can be given to any Registrar. If there is no impediment to your
marriage, the Registrar will issue you with a Marriage Registration
Form (MRF) which gives you permission to marry.
Before the ceremony, you should give the MRF to
your marriage-solemniser. Immediately after the marriage
ceremony the MRF should be signed by you and your spouse, the
two witnesses and the solemniser.
Returning the MRF: If you get married by
civil ceremony, the Registrar who solemnised the marriage will
register the marriage as soon as possible after the ceremony.
If you get married by religious ceremony, you should give the
signed MRF within one month to any Registrar (not necessarily
the one who issued it), for the marriage to be registered.
If the completed MRF is not returned to a Registrar
within 56 days of the intended date of marriage recorded on
the MRF, the Registrar can serve a notice on you requiring you
to return the MRF within 14 days of receiving the notice. If you
do not comply with this requirement, the Registrar can serve a
notice on you requiring you to attend on a particular date at
the office of the Registrar (or other place given in the notice)
with the completed MRF. If you are unable to give the MRF to the
Registrar when you meet, you have a further 14 days to give it.
You cannot get your civil marriage certificate until the marriage
is registered.
Registration of marriages outside Ireland:
Marriages of Irish citizens abroad are registered in the country
where they occur. A marriage certificate issued abroad will normally
be recognised, for legal purposes, here in Ireland. The General
Register Office in the Republic of Ireland has no function in
the registration of marriages of Irish citizens that take place
abroad, or in advising on such marriages. Marriages that take
place outside the State do not need to be registered in Ireland.
Applying for a civil marriage certificate: The Marriage Register
entries are public records and anybody can obtain copies of
them.
You can apply in writing,
by fax or in person giving as many details of the marriage as
you can, i.e. full names, date and location of event, parent's
names and occupations, mother's maiden names etc. Obviously
the more information you can give us the more chance we have
of finding the records you are looking for.
Our index and records
are date based and are in a manual format so we will
need accurate dates (correct year at least). The absolute minimum
information we need is the forename and surname (of both parties
if it's a marriage) and the year the event occurred and in many
cases we will need some further detail/s such as an exact date,
the location of the event, other forenames, parents names etc.
(General
Register Office)
Ethos and Content of the course
This one-day course (held on one or more Saturdays each month - except August,) aims to help engaged couples to focus mentally, emotionally and spiritually on enhancing their marriage union. It is delivered in the form of interactive "sessions" rather than as straight lectures. It helps couples to clarify the expectations they bring to the marriage, and their commitment to partnership. We aim at a welcoming spirit, open to discussion and dialogue during the day. Participants are encouraged to exchange views and experiences with other couples on the course. You will have opportunity during the breaks to discuss your wedding preparations with others on the course.
What is covered on the course?
1. Relationship & Communication [09.30 to 11.00] Communicating; trust; honesty; realistic expectations; self awareness; coping with conflict.
2. Sexuality & Relationship [11.30 to 13.00] Male and female characteristics; understanding your relationship; approaches to family planning. Maintaining a healthy lifestyle. Keeping love going.
3. Marriage: Law & Sacrament [14.00 to 15.30] Marriage in the law and in society; Catholic teaching on Marriage as a graced vocation; form of its celebration.
4. Facing Life Together [16.00 to 17.00] A married couple share their experience of being in partnership, from dating to child-bearing and rearing a family.
Number of couples at the Course
Variable, depending on the
level of demand and on the time of year.
As ours is a popular format, there are seldom less
than 30 couples on any given course, but our venues & speakers can cope
with up to 50 couples. Hence, even though any of the participants is welcome to make their views heard,
the amount of dialogue on the course is necessarily limited.
Do the engaged couples enjoy the course?
Actually, many of our participating couples have said that - sometimes to their surprise - they found it both challenging and very worthwhile. These satisfied couples are our best advertisement and often recommend our course to their friends.
Location, Timetable and Frequency
All our courses are held on Saturdays, in venues in Dublin (south side) - and most often, in Terenure College. The dates and venues are posted, and regularly updated.
When does the course begin, and when does it end?
We start (with details about the course & its structure) at 09:20.
The course will be over, and your certificates of attendance distributed, by 17:10 that
afternoon.
While the course is quite short, we do hope you will follow up on some themes from the day, afterwards, by reading much of the supplementary material provided on this site
Must we book in advance, or can we simply "arrive on the day"?
Advance booking is absolutely
required. We could not
organise the courses without this
and no certificate of completion could be prepared
for issue at the end of the course.
Will our booking
be confirmed in writing?
Not unless you specifically request
this, sending an S.A.E. with your completed booking form.
Keep a note of the date for which you've booked.
If, by mishap, we are unable to attend the course?
If a genuine, last-minute illness or emergency prevents your attendance, let us know by phone (296-4257) for a refund, or we may be able to offer you a place on a later course instead.
Are any Meals included in the cost of the course?
Basic catering is provided for all our course participants in the form of "snacks to tide you over".
There's a Tea/Coffee & biscuits break in the mid-morning and again in the mid-afternoon. Also, a light lunch of soup & sandwiches is served in the canteen, from 1 pm onward.
If diabetic or vegetarian, please make any special catering needs known to our catering staff, by mid-morning.
Are any course-notes provided?
We do not provide printed notes to our course participants on the day of their course. Instead, as a means of following up items covered on your "Together" Course, we have provided detailed notes on many aspects of marriage. You can access them (communication, history, law, theology, and ceremony) via the buttons on left side of the MainPage).
Naturally, we hope that these will prove useful to our engaged couples, and that you will read at least some of them, as an extension of your marriage preparation day.
Is there intensive group-work, on the course?
No. There might be a small exercise to do in a group, but there is no need for revealing your inmost secrets, nor is your partner invited to spill the beans on you, in any way that might be personally embarrassing.
On the other hand, some level of interaction with others on the course should make it a more interesting experience for everybody concerned.
Attendance Certificate
Each couple on completion of the course receives an ornate "certificate of completion" with their names, the date of the course and the signatures of & contacts for both the course coordinator and the course director.
We recommend that you photocopy this cert asap after the course. To have a lost cert re-issued, please send your details [names, course date] with €10 plus SAE, to
Fr Pat Rogers
Mount Argus
Lr Kimmage Rd
Are all four sessions needed, to get our certificate?
Yes, from 9.30 until the final
session ends (5 pm). The course is designed as an integral unit so it can't really be trimmed down to just a couple
of sessions.
Our certificate states that you have completed all four sessions,
and can therefore only be issued when that condition is met.
Who may officiate at our wedding?
In order for your names to be entered in the civil register as married, your wedding must be solemnised by a person authorised by the General Registrar's office (see website http://www.groireland.ie)
In order for the religious wedding ceremony held in Ireland to be also a valid civil marriage, it must be "solemnised" or presided over by a person who is named on the official Register of Solemnisers, maintained by the Registrar's Office.
Before inviting a priest to act as your celebrant, you should check that his name is on this Register; and if it is not, ask to have that omission rectified well before the wedding date. Just before your wedding, hand over to this priest your marriage registration form.
Is the course suitable for Interfaith Weddings?
We believe so, though the majority attending will be Catholic couples. Inter-Faith Couples should notify us, and ask any questions they wish, about the options for celebrating their ceremony.
Sometimes the marriage council agency, Accord, holds courses specially designed for Inter-Faith Couples
Regulations for couples getting married outside of Ireland?
The regulations for weddings abroad will be briefly clarified. For full details on this question, elsewhere on this site, or consult the General Registry Office website.
Are any Irish priests available to celebrate weddings abroad?
Sometimes we can help the couple find a suitable bi-lingual Irish celebrant, willing to officiate at weddings in France, Spain, Italy or elsewhere. You may address your query to Fr. Pat Rogers on the day of your course.
How soon should we take the course?
There is no hard and fast rule on this, but our general guideline is: "As soon as is convenient for you, once you have gotten engaged, and have a date in mind for the marriage."
It's not unusual for a couple to take their course with us even six months or more before the wedding date. Getting it done early is not just convenient, in the sense of "one more task ticked off the list; you are also likely to get more benefit from it if you take it at your leisure, when not under the pressure of an imminent wedding.
You should take the course some four months ahead of the wedding, if you are getting married in a church outside of Ireland. Usually, the parish abroad will have a requirement that you send them a wedding-course certificate, at least three months in advance of your wedding.
The same four months guideline applies if yours is a "mixed marriage" since all your wedding documents, including the wedding-course certificate, will need to be sent in advance to the diocesan office, to obtain the bishop's consent.
Who Runs These Courses?
The course is organised by Fr Patrick Rogers, c.p., Mount Argus; and Angela O'Rourke, M.A. along with a team of highly trained counsellors and dedicated married couples.
Patrick Rogers, Th.D. lectures in biblical studies at the Milltown Institute in Dublin. He has trained in counselling, maintains the website and the staffing rota, and conducts the session dealing with marriage in civil law and Catholic doctrine; and wedding celebration.
Angela O'Rourke, M.A. (applied theology) has taught 3rd-level courses on Christian Ministry, and on the Theology of Marriage. As well as dealing with bookings and answering telephone queries, she is responsible for our course session on sexuality and relationship.
Other Team Members:
The trained counsellors who treat of relationship problems and viable solutions include: Brian McDonnell, Berna Brennan, Gillford d'Souza, David Carrick, Sarah McDermott and John Murphy
The final session (Life Together, on the actual, lived experience of marriage,) is given by a rota of married couples, selected both for their communication skills and because they have an interesting story to share.
Is any follow-up counselling
offered by the "Together" course?
Any course participant is free to speak to any of our speakers after each session, or to arrange a later appointment with them, if they wish. Also, upon request from a participan couple, we will gladly provide a referral to a marriage counsellor, e.g. on dealing with relationship stress, or conflict resolution. In this case, the initial counselling session will be offerred gratis to the couple, courtesy of our course.
There are many discreeet, helpful and non-judgmental services, among them Berna Brennan (Churchtown) or "Awakenings" (Rathfarnham), Dublin, to which we can refer you.
Situations where counselling can help:
Relationship problems may arise that a couple feel unable to resolve on their own. Rather than involve family members or close friends, who might too quickly take sides – and make the problem worse – it's worth seeking impartial and skilled help from a trained counsellor. What counselling offers is an area of calm, where things can be seen again in perspective and some middle ground can be reached, hopefully before a couple have reached breaking-up point.
Various agencies offer this service, in total confidentiality, among them Retrouvaille a program designed to help heal and renew marriages, and the Accord Marriage Advisory Agency which has a vibrant counselling service around the country. Information from 01 478 4400
What Wedding-Documents will we need for a Catholic marriage?
a) Baptismal & confirmation certificates
b) Pre-Nuptial Enquiry Form (by a priest of your
parish
c) Marriage preparation certificate
d) Documentary proof of your freedom to marry *
e) permissions & dispensations where applicable
**
* e.g. furnish an AFFIDAVIT
** e.g. for a mixed marriage
Since interpretations of d) and e) may vary according to local custom, you should ask the priest in charge of your wedding church to list his documentary requirements.
For the civil ceremony you need:
1. The couple must attend in person with the state Registrar 3 months in advance of the proposed wedding.
2. The registrar issues a Marriage Registration Form (MRF) to permit the wedding. (The couple must present the MRF to the solemniser before the wedding so that he can check that the details are correct before the marriage takes place. This should be done as early as is convenient..)
3. The person officiating at the wedding must be a state registered solemniser appointed by his/her church. If changes are necessary – for instance, changing the name of the solemniser – the couple should be advised to contact the civil registrarto arrange for the re-issue of the MRF at the earliest possible stage before the ceremony.
4. Two witnesses must be nominated (normally Best Man & Bridesmaid)
5. You will also declare, before the wedding ceremony, that there is no civil impediment to the marriage, using this form
6. The couple must return the completed MRF to any registrar after the wedding, so that their marriage is civilly recorded.
Registration and Certificate of Marriage
Getting the MRF: Since 5 November 2007, a couple intending marriage are required to give notification in person, to a Registrar, of their intention to marry at least 3 months before their intended marriage date. The notification can be given to any Registrar. If there is no impediment to your marriage, the Registrar will issue you with a Marriage Registration Form (MRF) which gives you permission to marry.
Before the ceremony, you should give the MRF to your marriage-solemniser. Immediately after the marriage ceremony the MRF should be signed by you and your spouse, the two witnesses and the solemniser.
Returning the MRF: If you get married by civil ceremony, the Registrar who solemnised the marriage will register the marriage as soon as possible after the ceremony. If you get married by religious ceremony, you should give the signed MRF within one month to any Registrar (not necessarily the one who issued it), for the marriage to be registered.
If the completed MRF is not returned to a Registrar within 56 days of the intended date of marriage recorded on the MRF, the Registrar can serve a notice on you requiring you to return the MRF within 14 days of receiving the notice. If you do not comply with this requirement, the Registrar can serve a notice on you requiring you to attend on a particular date at the office of the Registrar (or other place given in the notice) with the completed MRF. If you are unable to give the MRF to the Registrar when you meet, you have a further 14 days to give it. You cannot get your civil marriage certificate until the marriage is registered.
Registration of marriages outside Ireland:
Marriages of Irish citizens abroad are registered in the country where they occur. A marriage certificate issued abroad will normally be recognised, for legal purposes, here in Ireland. The General Register Office in the Republic of Ireland has no function in the registration of marriages of Irish citizens that take place abroad, or in advising on such marriages. Marriages that take place outside the State do not need to be registered in Ireland.
Applying for a civil marriage certificate: The Marriage Register entries are public records and anybody can obtain copies of them.
You can apply in writing, by fax or in person giving as many details of the marriage as you can, i.e. full names, date and location of event, parent's names and occupations, mother's maiden names etc. Obviously the more information you can give us the more chance we have of finding the records you are looking for.
Our index and records are date based and are in a manual format so we will need accurate dates (correct year at least). The absolute minimum information we need is the forename and surname (of both parties if it's a marriage) and the year the event occurred and in many cases we will need some further detail/s such as an exact date, the location of the event, other forenames, parents names etc. (General Register Office)